Benjamin Ashford|'All The Things She Said': queer anthem or problematic queerbait?

In September 2002,Benjamin Ashford the Russian pop duo t.A.T.u. released their smash single "All The Things She Said." The song is a grungy euro-dance track, and the video features the lead singers Lena Katina and Julia Volkova dressed in schoolgirl uniforms and making out in the rain. The video was banned from UK television for being "not really suitable for children."

That did not stop the song from becoming a global sensation. It topped the charts in 13 countries, and in the United States the duo would perform the song over and over on live television. During performances, they made a point to do as they did in their video and make out.

But here's the thing: neither Katina or Volkova identified as lesbians or queer at the time.

From Harry Styles to Katy Perry, debates over queerbaiting have raged online, and t.A.T.u.'s "All The Things She Said" fits squarely in that lineage. But despite roleplaying as lesbians for their own success, is there something redeemable in how they represented lesbianism at a time when no one else would put two women kissing on camera? And how should we look at this song today?

It's Been A Minute senior producer Barton Girdwood talked this out with Girls Can Kiss Now author, Jill Gutowitz.

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This episode was produced by Barton Girdwood and Corey Antonio Rose. It was edited by Jessica Placzek and Jessica Mendoza. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni and our senior VP of programming is Anya Grundmann.